Scalars, tsetin "offline"?

[CMW]

Rather than creating a new logger setup file on my proper PC, transferring it via memory stick to my iffy laptop, which is all I have to write to a PCMCIA memory card, and then going out to the workshop and constantly starting and running the car, is there a way to test scalar set ups without creating a new log file in the logger, then reading real time data off the ecu? Maybe do it in GDA somehow to test the maths, then once it all seems to be giving proper data in GDA write a set up file for conversion in the logger? If possible does this need the GDA Pro upgrade with maths enabled? Is there a way to read real time data from the logger on a laptop?

Thanks.

[R!C0]

GDA does have a feature something like what you're after. The Setup Test (the warning icon in the setup editor) allows you to enter values for the raw CAN (or serial) input, and it will show you its 'output' value. However this does require knowing what the CAN value related to as a value when it started at the M800. If the M800 can tell you this i.e. an RPM of 2000 = a CAN value of 0x0F00, then this would be what you want. That is IF! This feature is enabled in the standard version of GDA.

HTH

[CMW]

Hmmm, it seems to be enabled in the standard version, and what I am trying to do is something Motec suggested a while back. I can "export" my custom CAN template to a file. If I then open it in one of their later dashboard set up software packages (I am using ADL3 dash / logger set up software) it allows you to see an "advanced" menu showing CAN set up, with another option to show and change received channels (received as in the dashboards point of view). Motec reckon these screens for each channel will show all I need.




http://www.gatesgarth.com/GDA/adl3_screenshot.jpg


http://www.gatesgarth.com/GDA/adl3_screenshot2.jpg

[R!C0]

Yes so these are the details you need to transfer to GDA in scalars for your outputs.

This should translate fairly straight forwardly, however I'm not sure what divisor means, seems a bit odd to have a multiplier and a divisor.

[CMW]

OK, you will no doubt be relieved to know I am 95% there with scalars, just a glitch with the boost control solenoid duty cycle, which GDA unchangingly shows a 4.388, but Motec shows correctly as 0% and some M800 engine supply 8 and 5 volt voltages not showing at all. I have run my M800's on board logging in parallel with the GDA log and nearly all sensors now read the same. I am pretty sure I can sort out the three that are playing up in time. I am also learning a lot about what effort must go into plug and play ecu / logger stuff! I read an article where you talk about no longer being happy cracking CAN stuff for plug and play ecu's on late cars, and moving to stand alone stuff more. This stuff of mine must be child's play to you, but it gives me an insight into what tackling a whole car's CAN data might be like

My issue is the GPS stuff. Motec have sent a reply which I copy below. they send data out for latitude and longitude coordinates in two data streams for each lat and lon. They so the same for GPS time. They are then combined in the i2 standard software to give a meaningful figure and draw a track map and allow a GPS timing beacon to be manually inserted, or to auto trigger from in-putted GPS coordinates. The figures i2 show for data and GDA are below:

GDA i2
GPS Time HW 8015 1889
GPS Time LW 51421 -18240
GPS Lat HW 1359 8015
GPS Lat LW 0 (Doesn't alter...) -14115
GPS Long HW 5011 -364
GPS Long LW 7973 15223
GPS Speed (MPH) 15223 0.1
GPS Sats in View 1889 5
GPS Quality 47696 1


That looks a nightmare to sort out, unless you think otherwise?

Is it possible to feed Serial data into the logger direct and make things easier? As per Motec's idea?

Thanks, a token of my appreciation of your help should be on its way to you as we speak

Motec's reply below:
''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
GPS latitude and Longitude are special channels. Most ECU channels are
16bit, but the GPS LAT, GPS LON are 32 bit, as they need greater resolution
for accuracy.

This is no problem for our loggers as we have special code to deal with 32
bit channels.

I'm afraid that you may have some problems with your data logger choice with
GPS.

We don't see any GEMS equipment in Australia, so I don't really know if it
is capable of dealing with 32 bit RS232 data.
Your options are these:

1) wire the GPS into the GEMS unit instead of the ECU.
Or
2) splice the GPS TX wire between the GEMS unit and the M800 if you need GPS
info in both devices (this is not guaranteed to work, but usually does).
Or
3) send each 32 bit channel as 2 16 bit channels, and put them back together
in the GEMS unit.

As the M800 can only send 16 bit channels, you can send GPS Lat HW (first 16
bits) and GPS Lat LW (last 16 bits) in your custom CAN transmit. You would
then do the same for GPS LONG.



Jamie Augustine

MoTeC Research Centre

'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

[R!C0]

Glad its going well. Now to just to get round the last few niggles!

Yep, CAN is getting pretty complex these days, some modern cars virtually run the entire car from it. We have customers using hundreds of CAN channels.

Considering you already have the GPS wired up and working with the M800, I would suggest best to leave it this way. If you do then want to use this data in GDA you will need the maths functions in the Pro version to combine the two channels for each lat and long. You will only really need to log the 4 channels of lat and long. Time could be useful, but speed is derived from lat and long and the others are not really relevant.

This would be best option in my opinion, but yes there will be the cost of Pro.

[CMW]

I am happy to buy the Pro whatsit, a dongle? if you are confident we can get the maths sorted without me going back to school, (why didn't I pay more attention at maths, I hated it, but they all said it would be useful one day.... ;}), I'll phone sales tomorrow. Will you have a pre compiled maths "thing" to copy paste in and it will just do it all then?
Can you just check the firmware in the loggers will support this, when I first got them I seem to recall there was doubt over that.

Thanks again Rico.

[CMW]

The vast majority of logged channels are now working fine, however there are
issues that I can't resolve with a few data channels. I ran dual logging, DA99-L2 and
Motec M800 internal, at the same time, to get a comparison. The channels that I cannot
get to work are below.

These are:

IGN Dwell. GDA shows a rough range of 8.4* to 11.5* (supposedly TIME in M/s)
which is plain wrong. Motec i2 from the same data download shows circa 1.6* M/s
which is a correct figure.

Batt Volts. GDA shows an unvarying 2.55 V all the time. i2 shows circa 13.8*V which is correct.

8V Eng Supply. GDA shows zero (0) all the time. i2 shows a correct circa 7.95*V

5V Eng Supply. GDA shows zero (0) all the time. i2 shows a correct circa 5.01*V

Aux 7 Output Duty (This is the boost control solenoid duty rate in %) GDA shows
an unwavering 4.388 all the time whilst i2 is showing zero (0)% which is correct as
the engine is not under load and not making boost to control, so the valve is inactive.

I have checked, double and triple checked that CAN channel numbering in the
Motec stuff matches in GDA, and have tried various scalars, and no scalars at all.
I am unsure if these channels need to be Signed, of if other than 16
bit gain needs setting, at the moment all channels are set unsigned and at 16 bit gain.
Every other logged channel is now working fine.

I have put some Motec set up screenshots and the GDA set up and .stf files all zipped
up at:

http://www.gatesgarth.com/GDA/data.zip

Can you see if I am doing anything wrong here please? I have tried, for many hours, it's
become a bit of an obsession Thanks.

[R!C0]

I'm still trying to understand really what the Motec bit mean, but here we go:

Ign Dwell: Looking at the Motec ouput pic, it has a multiplier of 2000 and a divisor of 1000. To me this adds to to a multiplier of 2. Now by deduction (that they are in the 1000's), tried a multiplier of 0.002. This looks to give a better output.

The Rest: Looking at the last Motec setup you sent (there wasn't one in that zip), batt volts comes out on CAN14, the last GDA has CAN15 as its input. This applies to some of the others.

Can you check these are on the correct CAN and send your current motec setup.

Yes where they say signed, you should also select signed in GDA.

[R!C0]

sorry just noticed the last couple of pics of your motec setup, soz!

Another post to follow...

[CMW]

Here's the Motec ecu setup file I am using Rico.

[R!C0]

Now I cant see why the rest of those channels shouldn't be working, but from the data it looks like the logger is not receiving anything on those channels, ignore the fact that some of them are non-zero.

its odd because other channels on that can message i.e. Lambda2 and Gear volts are fine.

Can you be 100% that those channels are being sent out on the CAN?

[CMW]

Not sure how I can be certain at all. I know that the internal logging in the M800 shows these fine, but suspect the internal logging is not from the CAN BUS? I can ring Motec and ask if they have any suggestions? Glad it's not something else daft that I have done, at least! Thanks. I will try the new scalar for the ign dwell in a minute. It's nothing to do with me just having set the gains at 16 bit right across the board is it? Plus I have yet to try with all channels set to Signed.

[R!C0]

Even if the gains were wrong you should see something. The gains are essentially which bit of the message you're after, 16bit is all. Read the GDA for a better explanation. Signed mean basically a plus or minus number. Some background reading!: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integer_(computer_science)

[CMW]

Correcting the scalar to 0.002 has sorted the ignition dwell The other channels for volts and aux 7 output remain unchanged with Signed ticked and do not vary. I will ring Motec and see if they have an opinion. Although RPM seems to log at a pretty similar figure to in i2 I have the scalar set to 1. Motec show a multiplier of one and a divisor of six though, should I be fiddling with this? Cheers.